The Faerie Rings, a Magical Tale of Healing and Rebellion.

[00:00:13] Zina Brown: Welcome to Brainforest Café with Dennis McKenna. [00:00:23] Dennis McKenna: Zina Brown is the writer and director of The Faerie Rings, an upcoming narrative feature film about the promise of visionary plant medicines and the cruelty of those who would outlaw them. Zina's unique visual and narrative style has been awarded in film festivals across the world, including the Barcelona International Environmental Film Festival, Kiev Film Festival in Ukraine, Mexico City International Film Festival, Amsterdam International Film Festival, San Antonio Film Festival, and the Woods Hole Film Festival. He has over 25 years of writing and directing experience, including numerous videos and festival favorite short films. His short film Dreams of the Last Butterflies was screened at 50 film festivals in 13 countries, as well as winning many awards. And the McKenna Academy audience is pleased to welcome Zina to the Brainforest Café. [00:01:31] Zina Brown: Thank you so much, Dennis. It is such an honor and a pleasure and an absolute delight to be here. Thank you so kindly. [00:01:38] Dennis McKenna: Well, the feeling is mutual. I've been reading about your film. I'm looking at some of the clips and so on, so I'll just let you take it away. What inspired you to make this film? [00:01:52] Zina Brown: And it's been early getting there, so The Faerie Rings, just to start, it's a narrative feature film. And really what it is, Dennis, is an analogy. It's a fairytale analogy about the war on drugs. And I kind of like to describe it as a cross between Alice in Wonderland and George Orwell's 1984. So it kind of has both those fantasy and dystopian elements, but really at its core, um, it's a story about the healing power and potential about plant and fungal medicines and the injustice of them being criminalized. You know, part of the inspiration for the story is I found that there's so many amazing documentaries being made right now in this space about, you know, about the subject, but not a lot of narrative stories. And, you know, documentary stories are. Are great, but they. They have a limited audience. [00:02:43] Dennis McKenna: Right. [00:02:43] Zina Brown: You know, it can be very cerebral, which is fine. But I wanted to create something as a storyteller that would really resonate with people's hearts, you know, and as a feature film with a sizable budget, could actually potentially reach millions of people with this message, you know, Would you like me to give you a short little synopsis of the story? [00:03:03] Dennis McKenna: Please. Okay. [00:03:05] Zina Brown: So the Faerie Rings takes place in Wardenica, which is kind of like an alternate, even more dystopian version of America slightly in the future. And it's controlled by the truth, Truth setters, which are three rulers whose words all must obey. And they're the lawmaker the wayshower and the light giver. And they kind of represent the evil archetypes of politics and religion and media and they control everything. They have their boot on the neck of all the commoners in Walter. They have all the resources, they have everything. Now living in Wah is Simon, who's our main hero of the story. And he's a disillusioned young artist, struggles with a lot of mental health issues. He and his rebellious friends are just. They just want a way out. They just want some relief to their suffering. And they hear about the Fairy Rings, these magical circles of mushrooms that go far out deep in the forest. That legend has it if you step inside one, you're transported to the fairy realms. Now the true setters hate the fairy rings because it's something they can't control. So they demonize and destroy them wherever they found. They plaster Wardenica with propaganda trust. The truth setters report a ring. But Simon and his friends aren't discouraged. And they need something, you know, so they, they, they go searching out in the forest for the very last fairy ring. And Simon does find one. He runs around it nine times, because that's what you need to do. Steps inside and is transported to the fairy realm where he meets Karathladi, the fairy guide, who's a very gnome like wise character, who then takes him to the fairy realm, explains the ways and means of this place, and then introduces him or takes him to meet the cannabis fairy and the mushroom fairies and the ayahuasca fairies. And these are not Disney fairies. These are fairies with some bite, like old time fairies. And each one of these fairies presents Simon with a test that he must pass. And in doing so, he learns a lesson that helps him to learn how to heal himself, how to heal his world, and ultimately how to defeat the truth setters from their tyranny. So that's kind of the basic of the story. [00:05:16] Dennis McKenna: Sounds like a great plot. It's germane to so many issues these days. I mean, the authoritarian world that you describe is uncomfortably close to the one that we inhabit these days. And there is definitely. This film should resonate with a lot of people because we are living in these dark times now where all kinds of things are suppressed. Free thinking is suppressed. You mentioned in your email cognitive liberty. Cognitive liberty is under attack. The war on drugs. The point has been made. The war on drugs is really the war on consciousness, you know, and we are approaching a place. Not approaching, we're actually in a place where certain states of mind are prohibited because that's what the war on drugs really is. I mean, Terrence used to say, it's not that psychedelics, psychedelics are very dangerous because they give you dangerous ideas. Exactly. You know, it's not that the, that the medicines themselves are dangerous, but they definitely give you dangerous ideas. And our culture today, particularly in the United States, unfortunately, is afraid of ideas. And there's very much this effort to co opt the media, to co opt all the structures of society in service of this false narrative and this very dark of authoritarian perspective. And clearly, I think those who have had experiences with plant medicines or mushroom medicines, that we'll call them plants for the moment, but those who have had those experiences realize that they are catalysts for pushing back against this. They are, in this context, they are inherently very subversive because they're a way to fight back, because they change hearts and minds, they can change people's minds and they can wake people up. And they're doing that. The question is, are they doing it fast enough? Are they doing it effectively enough? [00:07:37] Zina Brown: Yeah, well, that's why I feel this great urgency around this message. You wake up every day and it's just like this deluge of bad news. It's just like it's unescapable. Every single day, it's just like something else is happening. You're like, I can't even believe that this is going on right now. What sort of a horrible Twilight Zone reality am I living in that this continues to happen? And I have a 21 year old son and I really am very present with how he is viewing the world as well, and how I can see the world through his eyes. And the mental state of young people these days is not good. All the news, the social media, the smartphones, everything is just like. It's just like this dark tide that's just rising and rising and rising and seems to be unescapable for so many people. And that's why I find that the, the beautiful message of the plant medicines can be so helpful because like you said, not only does it help you to question all of those things, to question the authority, but like Terence used to say, it's about dissolving boundaries as well, you know, and helping us to see that like, you know, people, people who aren't you aren't necessarily the enemy just because they have different points of view, you know, and that's what's being pounded into our head every single day now. Yeah. [00:08:52] Dennis McKenna: So, well, the film pushes back against that. And also I think there's a strong environmental message in the film as well. And one of the things that's going on now is we have these conversations all the time. But the culture is so estranged from nature and this is far. It's suffering from this divorce, essentially, this estrangement from nature for many decades. It's not just the current regime or the current time. This is the outcome, I believe, of 2000 years of Judeo Christian tradition in which nature is devalued and biology is prohibited. In all this controversy, for example, around abortion and things, I mean, and the attitudes of Christianity towards sexuality in general, this evinces basically a denial of biology. Are biological beings, and we, like it or not, we have to deal with all the problems and all the challenges of being biological beings and. But all the joy and wonder of it too. I'm dismayed at this separation from nature and the tendency globally, almost as a reaction, to retreat into these artificial virtual worlds. [00:10:35] Zina Brown: Oh, I know. [00:10:37] Dennis McKenna: I can sympathize with your son. I mean, the. To be a young person these days and dealing with this, this must be very difficult. [00:10:46] Zina Brown: Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, part of, part of my inspiration for also this project was I've been working with mushrooms personally for over 30 years now in Ayahuasca for over 10 years. And really part of the inspiration was just to give back to them too. You know, it's like the gifts that I've been given in my life are innumerable. You know, like you said that that connection to nature, that understanding of, you know, that we're all one, you know, as simple as that. That's the easiest way to say it has been so profound in my life and helped me to help inspire all of my storytelling. And, you know, I look at someone like my son and who sees this world being torn apart by so many things, you know, and I mean, just the issue of climate change alone is so massive and huge, but all we can really do is do what we can do as individuals. And I feel like that's where work with the plant and the fungus medicines can really help so much to reconnect us to that natural world. And for people like, I live in New York City, so many people are completely disconnected from nature here, but that gives a chance to do that. Even from a yoga studio in Brooklyn, sometimes it can do the trick. [00:12:06] Dennis McKenna: Right? Right. Yeah. Well, these plant medicines, I think of them as co evolutionary catalysts, you know, you would recognize that, you know, they are our partners and they can open our eyes to nature and that's what they do. I sometimes say, what psychedelics do is they bring the background forward. In a natural environment, the background is always there. But we're so programmed to suppress all that that we rarely perceive it. And so we have to, because we are so estranged, we have to invoke almost desperate measures to make that connection. Not everyone has to do that, but the plant medicines are kind of a way of forcing the issue. They are scary in a certain way because you have to surrender to them and you have to open yourself up to this other world, this other way of perceiving. You have to put down your phones and put down all your devices, just open your eyes, go into nature. Nature is the ultimate teacher. And nature has a lot to teach us, virtually everything. And we are now not only not listening, but in the current geopolitical or political environment, we're actually. Nature is being perceived as the enemy. I cannot believe that policy, energy policy in the States is basically drill, baby, drill. It's a deliberate effort being made to wreck nature as if it was already wounded enough. I know. So we have to cope with that somehow. I think your son is perhaps lucky to have a father like you. Is he coping? How is he coping? [00:14:05] Zina Brown: Yeah, he does. You know, I don't think he would mind me saying that he's started to work with mushrooms a little bit and that has been helpful for him. But really it's a day to day struggle for him and so many of the young, his friends and everything like that, you know, and it's a day by day thing, you know, it's like you move from one step forward. Sometimes it's two steps back. With all of the challenges of just dealing with the information in the world and just trying to keep that spark of hope alive can be very challenging, you know, and that relates back to my story. The young person, the hero, Simon in my story is, you know, he has suicidal ideation. He's in a really tough spot in Mordenica. Like it's. It's a fun, entertaining story, but it's, it's got very serious themes as well. And it this not until he has the courage to step inside the ring for himself. Even though he, it's completely unknown, he doesn't know what is going to be in that ring. If it's a nightmare, if it's monsters that are going to rip him apart, he has to have the courage to do that. And I feel like that in and of itself with the psychedelic experience is such a big part of it that's often kind of overlooked. It's not just about the healing, but it's about having the courage, the, you know, the balls to do that in the first place. [00:15:24] Dennis McKenna: Yeah. You have to step. You have to go beyond the chrysanthemum and the psychedelic experience. The Faerie Rings is the perfect analogy to that because you are stepping into a realm of experience where you don't know what's on the other side. And what's on the other side could be quite terrifying. Often it is quite terrifying and balanced against that, it's also quite wonderful, you know, make the discoveries. So. But you have to have. It's all about courage, and it's all about pushing, sort of putting your assumptions to the side and having the courage to step into that fairy ring or to take those mushrooms or whatever it takes. And then you realize a whole bunch of things. [00:16:16] Zina Brown: Absolutely. [00:16:17] Dennis McKenna: A lot of what you realize is how little we understand. Yeah. The out of it. [00:16:21] Zina Brown: And the deeper you go, the deeper it gets. [00:16:23] Dennis McKenna: Also, the deeper we go, you go, the deeper it gives. That's absolutely. [00:16:29] Zina Brown: Another part of the inspiration, Dennis, for the story was me, I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice the overlap between the traditional fairy experience and the psychedelic experience. And I actually did a lot of research on traditional, especially Celtic, fairy tales for this story. And that's all woven into the story as well, like walking around it nine times, for example. So there's a lot of. There's a lot of interplay between, you know, how the fairies in those old stories react and how the plant medicines in our world interact can be very similar, too. Sometimes they're just like bright, sparkly, rainbow wings of joy, and other times they sink their teeth right into you and there's no escape, you know, so that's part of the fun of the story, I think, too. And also something that is going to really resonate with people, I think. [00:17:13] Dennis McKenna: I have no doubt that it will. I hope you can get it out to the right audience. Well, we know what the audience is. I'm sure the film will get out to them. [00:17:25] Zina Brown: You want me to kind of tell you where we're at with the film right now? [00:17:28] Dennis McKenna: Tell me about it. [00:17:29] Zina Brown: Yeah. So right now, the film is not yet made, just to make that clear. [00:17:32] Dennis McKenna: To everyone, although the screenplay has already won numerous awards, Right? Yeah. [00:17:39] Zina Brown: Well, that's one thing I wanted to touch on. So I wrote the screenplay a few years ago, and my producer encouraged me to send it out to film festivals. People may not be aware, but a lot of film festivals around the world also have a screenplay competition for films that aren't yet made. [00:17:56] Dennis McKenna: I didn't know that. Yeah. [00:17:58] Zina Brown: So I sent it out to a lot of film festivals and the response was overwhelmingly positive. At this point, we won 17 awards internationally. We got into over 50 film festivals with it. We won screenplay awards in Amsterdam and Mexico City. Kyiv in Ukraine gave us an award during the war at the Keed Film Festival, which was probably the most touching award I got. Paris, Tokyo, a whole bunch of US cities. And I really think, Dennis, that a lot of these people reading this are not necessarily psychedelic people, but at its heart, at its core, the story is really about resisting tyranny, which is the message that I think most of all is resonating with people as well. I'm not hitting people over the head with the message about psychedelics in the movie either. It's a subtle message, it's definitely in there. But first and foremost I wanted to make it entertaining and thought provoking, you know, so the other really good thing we have is my producer, Gavin berman is a 30 year Hollywood veteran and he's also a psychedelic person. Really, really believes in the message. He's just coming off of co producing Stranger Things season five. [00:19:06] Dennis McKenna: Oh, really? Okay. [00:19:07] Zina Brown: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He spent a year and a half in Atlanta doing Stranger Things. So he also co produced Amazon's Jack Ryan series, Escape at Dannemora, the really critically acclaimed Showtime show with Benito del Toro. He was production supervisor on Blade Runner 2049 with Harrison Ford. So he's at the top tier of being able to make these kind of things happen. So really we have what we need. We have access to possibly even a list actors. We just need the money to do it. So that's why we're trying to get the word out. [00:19:39] Dennis McKenna: So are these awards at film festivals and this gentleman's involvement and his track record, is that translating into support for this film? [00:19:52] Zina Brown: I mean, we have not yet found investors to fully fund the film yet, but support, absolutely. I was recently, as you know, at Psychedelic Science and we actually had at the Maps conference in Denver recently and we had an exhibitors booth there for the film. You know, we have a lot of concept art already made, really amazing art that we had all over our booth. And a lot of people came through and Dennis, the response was just so overwhelmingly positive. People were so excited about what we were doing. They would walk in and just be like almost overwhelmed by the little world we had created in our booth there with all the fairies and the cannabis fairy and everything like that. Because I think that we're doing something that's really unique and really outside of the box. And I think people really resonate with that. So just that alone makes me. It really left me with a feeling of like, if we can get this made, it's gonna really hit a home. It's gonna be a home run with people. People are gonna love this film. You know, if they're fans of Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or Hunger Games or a million other fantasy things, they're gonna love this, you know. So I just wanted to mention one other thing too. As you may have seen, we actually created a real cannabis fairy already. My wonderful partner, Madeline Bell is a performer and an amazing costume designer. And we actually created a live cannabis fairy that she performed in. She made all of these incredible silk, green silk cannabis leaves interwoven with gold thread that she arranged all over herself with like big fairy wings made of cannabis leaves. It's just a 90 second teaser, but it really hits hard. [00:21:33] Dennis McKenna: I just watched that clip before we came on. [00:21:37] Zina Brown: For those of you not watching, I'll spell it out for you. It's TheFaerieRings.com, but it's the old timey spelling of fairies, so it's T H E F A E R I E R I NG S. So T H E F A E R I E R I N G S.com and just so you know, we're intending to do almost all of this with like practical costumes. Like, we're going to try to stay away from using too much CG. You know, I grew up in the 80s of eras movie, 80s movies with legend and Time Bandits and, you know, Dark Crystal and all those fun movies that really, you know, had really cool costumes in them. So for all of the fairies in the movie, I really want to, you know, make really amazing costumes for all of them and have actual real performers in the costumes. It's also just way more fun to work with real people than any. [00:22:35] Dennis McKenna: Yeah, so you're having a lot of fun with this. But actually this is a very important message that you're trying to convey through the film. Not only the authoritarian suppression of free thought, but also the environmental message. I mean, this is, I think not enough is said. In fact, not enough even can be said about the threat of climate change and what we are doing to the planet. You know, that is the major existential threat to our existence, our continued existence. It's not AI, as some people say, although AI may accelerate that in the sense that AI environmentally is a complete disaster based on the electricity and other resources that you have to consume. I'm becoming quickly, a rather negative. My perspective on AI is getting more and more negative every day or I hear about it. I feel like some ways it represents an outsourcing of our spirit into machinery and algorithms and all that which are not equivalent. Algorithms do not have a spirit. And yet there's this seductive tendency to attribute that kind of agency to these artificial creations. I mean, that's a little bit off track. That's probably quite a bit off track. The problem is once being ignored as the real threat to the planet, and now in public policy, it's not even. It's barely on the table for discussion. Yeah. And yet we can turn on the TV and we could see the effects of it every day. You know, the effects of climate change. So I don't know, Zina. I think we're becoming, as a species, at least as a society, we're becoming a little psychotic here. [00:24:44] Zina Brown: I completely agree. But here's what gives me hope, Denys. I come back to this again and again. And in the story in the faerie rings, the true setters, they're cutting down all of the forests of Ordenica to build their cities. And that's what drives the commoners further and further into the forest. And that's why there's only one fairy ring left, is because they've cut down all of the trees. And Carathlodide, the fairy guide, is actually. His other name is the Keeper of the Doors. Because it goes two ways. Like, humans have to be able to go into the fairy realm, but more importantly, fairies still have to be able to get to our realm, too, to bring us the magic that we need. Because without that magic, without the magic of nature, we are lost. We are lost in a maze of concrete and wiring. You know, and that's another really important part of the message of the fairy rings. You know, for me, personally, if I could just share one of my. Another reason I'm really connected to these plant medicines. So I have two stories for you, Dennis. The first is about mushrooms. [00:25:51] Dennis McKenna: Okay. [00:25:53] Zina Brown: I'm 16 years old. I'm living in a little town in Minnesota. It's the middle of winter. And at this point in my life, I've never had a drink of alcohol. I've never smoked a joint. I've never had a cigarette, nothing. And I'm a painfully, painfully shy teenager. I just cannot speak when I'm in a group of any amount of more than one person. I have a couple of close friends, but otherwise, I'm tortured by this lack of being Able to speak when I'm in a public setting. And my friends happen to be friends with some older friends who supplied them with some mushrooms and my own natural curiosity. When they started telling me about this experience they had had, I was all for it. I was like, that sounds great. You eat a mushroom, you have visions. That sounds cool. I'm in. And so one really cold winter's night, a friend and I went out. We walked out to the. We ate the mushrooms, we walked out to the edge of town, and it was a moonless night. Big bright stars. And at the end of edge of our town, there was a big sledding hill that all the kids used, really big. And of a field at the bottom of the hill and then a forest. And we're walking, we're talking. We get up to the top of the hill, and I'm starting to feel something, something for the first time in my life, a sensation that's not sobriety. And I get really excited, and I take a step onto the hill. And what I didn't realize is it had rained that day, and so the entire hill was literally just solid ice. At the time. I was wearing combat boots with no treads on them. And I started sliding on my feet down the hill, like I was surfing on the soles of my feet, going faster and faster and faster, sliding down the hill. And then I hit the bottom, whack. Tumbled four times, and then sprang up on my feet. And in that moment, Dennis, I looked up, and all of the stars in the sky shot out rays of light onto the forest in front of me and illuminated the entire forest in starlight. At 16 years old, that was the moment that mushrooms claimed me. [00:28:03] Dennis McKenna: That's the incredible story. [00:28:06] Zina Brown: Yeah. [00:28:06] Dennis McKenna: Do you mind telling me where that was in Minnesota? [00:28:10] Zina Brown: Northfield, Minnesota. [00:28:11] Dennis McKenna: Where? [00:28:12] Zina Brown: Northfield, Minnesota. Northfield, Minnesota. At the time, I think it was about a town of 12,000 people. It's where I went to high school. But the amazing thing about that, Dennis, is I, of course, was completely taken by them at that point and tried to do them as often as I could, but they helped to give me a confidence that I had never had before, that to really believe in myself. If I can do this thing, if I can have the courage to do this, I can have the courage to talk to these jocks at my school, or whoever it was. And it took a while, but over the course of a couple of years of working with these medicines, and I really began to understand that I had something to say. And that's why I've Been working with them for 30 years at this point, because no matter how many times I go back to mushrooms, they always have a new lesson for me. There's always a new way for them to help in my life. And that's part of the amazing magic of them. Like I said, the deeper you go, the deeper it gets. [00:29:15] Dennis McKenna: Well, one thing you do learn from psychedelics is they make you aware of the limitations of what we think we know. I mean, everything you thought, you know, just gets shattered, you know, and that's a necessary step in order to appreciate, to help you appreciate that, you know, we may think we have the world figured out, but actually we only understand a tiny fraction of what reality actually is. And even that is a provisional understanding. I mean, you can't be certain of anything. And I don't view that. I view that as a good thing because it keeps you humble and it keeps you asking questions. And I think that's one thing that psychedelics are very helpful with because they bring that front and center. You know, if I had to encapsulate the message that I get from ayahuasca primarily, but also mushrooms in many contexts, it always reminds me, remember how little you know. So true side of that coin is, remember how much there is left to learn. That's the joyful part of it, you know? Absolutely. You don't know. Nobody knows what the hell is going on. But we're open to learning. I come to think we're not really in search of the answer. I don't know if there is an answer. The point is the journey. [00:30:56] Zina Brown: The point is the journey. [00:30:57] Dennis McKenna: Journey of curiosity, of trying to open ourselves up to the fact that the world is astonishing and psychedelics put that right in front of us, you know, it cannot be denied. So that sense, they are. They are cognitive catalysts, you know, they're the best teachers that one can have. And of course, indigenous people call these plant teachers. It's not for nothing, you know, any things can be teachers. It doesn't have to be people. [00:31:29] Zina Brown: You know, since you mentioned curiosity, I wanted to give you a. So Carathlodi in the story speaks mostly in rhyme, and when he meets Simon for the first time, he asks him his intention of being in the fairy realm. And Simon says he's curious. And Karathodai replies, there's a lock on everything that you can know or see. How do you open them? Curiosity is the key. [00:31:56] Dennis McKenna: All right, very good. [00:31:58] Zina Brown: Well, I got a lot of that in there. [00:32:02] Dennis McKenna: I hope this film gets out. When do you think it will launch or what? You've got to. [00:32:08] Zina Brown: Well, we need to find some investors first. So once we have the money, we have everything we need. So it's just a matter of, you know, letting the universe, you know, open the doors that need to be open for this. We do have a couple of irons in the fire right now, so, you know, nothing. Nothing 100% yet. [00:32:28] Dennis McKenna: Well, hopefully people listening to this podcast will get the message. They'll get the message. Whether that translates into support for your film, I don't know, but I certainly hope so. [00:32:42] Zina Brown: Thank you so much. [00:32:44] Dennis McKenna: I think it's a great story and it needs to be told. And telling it as a narrative like this, creating effectively a post psychedelic, post technological fairy story is really important because myth, myth is important, culturally speaking. And in some sense, all myths have a certain truth to them. The way for a culture to express its sort of collective wisdom through myth and storytelling. And this is not the first time that you've done this. Tell me a little bit about the last butterfly. [00:33:29] Zina Brown: Yeah, absolutely. Well, so Dreams of the Last Butterflies was a short film that I did, which also did very well. I got into, as you mentioned, 50 film festivals across the world. It's a short film, it's only nine minutes long, and if anyone out there would like to watch it, there's a link right at the top to this film on my Fairy Rings website. As we were talking about, part of having a relationship with the plant medicines is being opened up to the. The plight of the natural world and all the horrible shit that's going on out there. I've always been amazed by the message of butterflies in their metamorphosis, in their transformation, and how they can literally change into goo from a caterpillar and reform into this beautiful creature which is still somehow the same creature, even though it's completely different. And using that as a metaphor for how we need to change as a species. And so I created a little short fantasy fairy tale about the last butterfly queens. And again, we had all performers and we built these amazing, beautiful, photorealistic, gigantic butterfly wings for these beautiful dancers to perform in. And the whole story is really about how the magical power of butterflies is. They can, if there is a great need, they can actually enter human dreams and help humans to understand them in dreams. So the short fairy, the short tale is basically about how each of the fairy or each of the butterfly queens enters the human dreams and imaginations to help them understand that their world is being taken away from them. You know, it's really a story about the you know how butterflies are endangered and we need to do something about them or there won't be any left. Like it's really, really bad with the butterflies. [00:35:18] Dennis McKenna: Yes. [00:35:19] Zina Brown: And one of the butterfly queens represents an actual endangered butterfly from around the world. It's a really beautiful story. It won a lot of awards. So if you're interested, please go watch it on the website. [00:35:31] Dennis McKenna: Yeah, I would love to. Send us the link and we'll put that on the podcast site as well. I think a lot of people would resonate with that. I do think you made an important point. You know, one of the things that is amazing and probably unique to, well, lepidoptera butterflies at moss is this process of metamorphosis. And it very much does speak, I think, to the human condition. In some ways we are a larval species. We need to undergo that metamorphosis some way and become fully conscious and fully human. But people seem to have forgotten that or something or losing touch with this. So these natural catalysts, I mean, it comes back to. Well, you know, there are many things. I mean, it talks for one. It speaks to the fact that nature is permeated with intelligence. Oh, yes. If we can only open our eyes to see it. Because it's not what we think of as intelligence, but it's there. It's built into the very structure of reality and particularly biological. Yeah. [00:36:54] Zina Brown: If I could just share another short story about my experience with ayahuasca since you mentioned that. Plant intelligence. So I was actually born with a chronic immune deficiency called cvid. And I have a fraction of the amount of white blood cells as normal people and child. Growing up, I was really sick all the time, hospitalized with pneumonia, and was. Was basically a constant battle for most of my life. I ended up getting a white blood cell infusion which I get every four weeks now. And it's been a challenge my whole life, like a real challenge to stay healthy. When I started hearing about, you know, these amazing, miraculous healing powers of ayahuasca, you know, I'd already had all this long experience with other psyched and I really began to wonder, like, is there something that, you know, the medicine might be able to help me with this thing that's been going on my whole life. And it took me a while to make the right connections to figure out the best place to go and all that. And I didn't have that as my intention right away. I wanted to see, you know, kind of get familiar with the landscape of that particular plan. But right away I really felt like you were saying that there was an intelligence there, a consciousness there that was outside of my own. And so finally, I guess I have the courage to ask the medicine about my blood, like, what. What can we, you know, just. Just to see this. And I had this really incredible moment, Dennis, of. It felt like the medicine. It felt like she came into my body and like, scanned me, scanned my immune system, scanned my blood. And the message I got was simply like, there's nothing wrong with you. This is who you are. This is who you're meant to be. And it was like a revelation to me just to have that sudden deep understanding that all of the trials and tribulations that I've gone through were for a reason. They were to help make me who I am today, to help give me the strength and the wisdom and the courage of having gone through all that, to do the things that I need to do right now. And for the first time in my life, I really accepted that and understood that this was just something that I can have as a part of my life, as a part of my story. And realizing that not only is healing, is not always about physical healing, sometimes it's just about accepting the things you can't change. And that was such a beautiful lesson for me. [00:39:22] Dennis McKenna: Yeah. Yeah. Well, your experiences very similar to many people, particularly with ayahuasca. I mean, the whole body scan, it's really the whole body mind scan, you know, that experience can afford. It manifests itself in different ways. But so did it, this experience, did it change your condition or did it just lead you to understand that this is your condition, you have live with it. Exactly. There are plants and mushrooms, you know, that will stimulate the immune system. You're probably aware of all that. Oh, yeah. I take. [00:40:03] Zina Brown: I'm in such a better place. [00:40:06] Dennis McKenna: Yeah, yeah. I have. [00:40:08] Zina Brown: I'm friends with all the mushrooms, not just the psychedelic ones, and they help me considerably. But it was really that. That, you know, it's something that I'd always kind of been fighting with in my mind my whole life. And just to have that be the. To have that different perspective has just enabled me to just have so much more of a healthy relationship with my own understanding of my own health and my own body, which has enabled me to be like, I'm just going to do everything I can. I'm going to live my life each day. I'm going to make this damn movie. I'm going to do everything I can. This is not going to hold me back. This is not going to stop me. So it was a really important Lesson for me, right? [00:40:40] Dennis McKenna: Yes, I imagine so. Well, fortunately, this is another place where we can be grateful for high tech medicine in a certain way, because there are ways that can mitigate it, if not cure it. Very good. I mean, you seem like a very together, focused, vibrant person. Thank you. May I ask how old you are? 50. Oh, man, you're at the top of your game. Thank you. I'm 25 years past that. I'm not on top of my game anymore. [00:41:20] Zina Brown: I don't know, Dennis, you're pretty spry. [00:41:23] Dennis McKenna: You might think so, but 50 is a great age. I mean, you're old enough to have acquired a bit of wisdom and you see the energy of youth, and then a lot of it is mindset and curiosity. I mean, I know. I'm sure you do too. I mean, you don't. Age has nothing to do with it. Age is about keeping your mind alive. [00:41:49] Zina Brown: Absolutely. [00:41:50] Dennis McKenna: And that can happen at any age. I know 90 year olds who are completely on top of it cognitively, and they're like little kids. And I think that that's a great deal. If you talk to accomplished scientists and people that have studied nature, people like Carl Sagan, for example, they're driven by their attitude toward nature. They have the curiosity of children. And I think children are open to many things. Children. I think children and indigenous people have a very different way of viewing nature than we do because they're not encumbered by literacy, which can be a good thing. I think we all want to be literate, but if you can get past that, if you can just open your mind to experiencing nature without all the linguistic encumbrances. That's what I mean. By bringing the background forward, it makes things going on which we're cognitively conditioned to suppress. But the psychedelics can temporarily disrupt that, what they call the default mode network. They can disrupt that. And when you move out of that reference frame temporarily, then you realize that the world is not what you think it is. And you can look at various situations. I think that's the basis for a lot of the therapeutic efficacy of psychedelics. You could relate to your depression, your addiction, your problems, you know, your ptsd, whatever, from a different perspective. And in some ways, that being simply being able to look at that lets you deal with it, lets you in some ways neutralize it or even cure. [00:44:02] Zina Brown: Yourself from it, and connect to that inner child and connect to the inherent playfulness and the inherent fun and the inherent magic within Sayidu as well. Everyone is always focused on the healing and helping to Relieve trauma and all these things about psychedelics. But there's a whole other part that's so playful and fun and beautiful and exciting. I've had more fun sitting on a mat in the dark by myself. [00:44:31] Dennis McKenna: Than. [00:44:31] Zina Brown: I could possibly have imagined. You know, that's another part of it that cannot be overlooked too. [00:44:37] Dennis McKenna: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, it's interesting that in the dialogue about psychedelics, it always has to be about healing and that's the function. All that's important. But remember, the word recreation, if you dissect it, is recreation. So there's a lot of lot to be said for recreational use because it's renewing, you know, love that, love that. There's nothing wrong with recreational use. There's nothing wrong with fun. Although, you know, I think it's again, part of this Judeo Christian heritage that we're not supposed to have fun. [00:45:23] Zina Brown: Yeah. [00:45:24] Dennis McKenna: Well, this has been a good conversation. [00:45:27] Zina Brown: Yeah. Thank you, Dennis. And just to close, I just wanted to say, with all of the buzz around psychedelics right now and the so called psychedelic renaissance, coupled with the fact that we have this wave of tyranny right now, that's mind boggling. I really feel like the message of this movie is really relevant right now. [00:45:46] Dennis McKenna: Could not be more timely, actually. Thank you. [00:45:49] Zina Brown: Yeah. And so if anyone wants more information, again, the website is TheFaerieRings.com, which is T H E F A E R I E R I N G S TheFaerieRings.com. there's lots of really cool concept art on there. You can watch the cannabis Faerie video and if you do want to contact me, there's a contact form on there. I would be happy to hear from anyone. Even if you don't have a million dollars and you just want to say this is cool, I would love to hear from you. [00:46:17] Dennis McKenna: Well, absolutely, of course. We'll put all those links on our website for this podcast episode and hopefully it'll attract some support and interest. And I have the feeling, Zina, that you got the energy and you've got the connections and I think this thing is going to manifest and maybe so. I appreciate your sharing the concept and the idea with us, with our audience, and I hope you'll come back in a few months and let us know how it's going. [00:46:53] Zina Brown: Absolutely. Dennis, it's been an absolute honor and a pleasure and delight. Thank you so much for having me on. [00:46:58] Dennis McKenna: Likewise. All the best to you. [00:47:00] Zina Brown: Thank you. [00:47:01] Dennis McKenna: Thank you, colleagues. I know it's a team effort, these things all. Thank you. [00:47:04] Zina Brown: Thank you so much. And thank you, everyone out there in Internet land for listening. [00:47:08] Dennis McKenna: You're doing the right things. I know. All the best. Good luck with everything. [00:47:12] Zina Brown: Thank you. Join our mission to harmonize with the natural world. Support the Makena Academy by donating today. Thank you for listening to Brainforest Café with Dennis McKenna. Find us online at McKenna.Academy.