A Grateful Tribute to Amazonian Wisdom in "Yuriana's Garden"

[Intro] Welcome to Brainforest Café with Dennis McKenna. [00:00:21] Dennis McKenna: Luis Solarat was born in Galicia, Spain, has been fascinated by dreams, the occult, spirits and magic since childhood. This lifelong curiosity drew him to science fiction, comics and ultimately filmmaking. After beginning his career with short horror and sci fi films, he soon grew weary of commercial work and moved to London to expand his career. There he joined London Real and rose to the role of creative director where he eventually met one of his idols, Dennis McKenna. Together they created “Reconnect”, a documentary that introduced Luis to the world of ayahuasca, sparking a profound shift in his life. Driven by the transformative experience, Luis journeyed to the Amazon to immerse himself in shamanic practices, arriving just as COVID lockdowns began. This unplanned extended stay led to “Psychedelic Pandemic”, an award winning documentary chronicling his time in the jungle. He spent three years in the rainforest undertaking dietas, facilitating ayahuasca retreats and co-creating biognosis with the McKenna Academy. His experiences are shared on his YouTube channel “Dissolution” and distilled in his latest project, “El Jardín de Yuriana” or “Yuriana's Garden”. Luis, my pleasure to welcome you to the Brainforest Café. [00:02:04] Luis Solarat: Thank you, Dennis. It's an honor to be here. As you know. [00:02:07] Dennis McKenna: It's so good. I have been doing podcasts regularly, you know, and they've all been good, but this is going to be one of the best. You know. [00:02:23] Dennis McKenna: That's a big honor, is just so, so manifest and you know, we've shared some rich experiences together and so I'm glad we have a chance to share that with the rest of the world. [00:02:37] Luis Solarat: Thank you, Dennis. You know, that is an honor for me to be here. You're a big mentor and friend and inspiration and this is a dream to be sharing projects with you and to be now in this new adventure, Yuriana's Garden, with all the support of your academy. So thank you so much. Thank you. [00:02:54] Dennis McKenna: You're welcome. You're welcome. So tell me a bit about Yuriana's Garden. This is your current project and you've done many of these things and we can get into those. You've actually have quite a track record of making some very interesting films about the Amazon and different aspects of it. The Psychedelic Pandemic was amazing. And you know, I should mention to the audience all of this will be on the podcast website. Links to much of Luis's work, which is prolific, and also to your crowdfunding campaign for this latest. This latest Project. So tell me a bit about your inspiration and what got you started in Yuriana's Garden. [00:03:45] Luis Solarat: Well, it's a long story, so Yuriana's Garden is my last short film that I'm co-creating with my girlfriend, Natalia. We both were the directors of this piece, and for first time, we are doing a piece that is a fiction film. It's a tale, it's a story. Before, I always explore all these topics through the lens of the documentary, like the one we did with you, Reconnect, or the ones you mentioned about my trips to the Amazon. But this time we wanted to push the edge a little bit and create something different. Because as also in the space, there is always this approach of the themes of the Amazon, themes of the jungle, through the lens of the documentary, but not through the lens of a fiction story. And we believe in the power of the stories. We believe in the power of tales and storytelling. The journey, the protagonist. So we decided to make a film in the Amazon with kids as protagonists, because it's not just for kids, but kids, is oriented to them, and they are the protagonist of this film. And we decided to start this adventure with no support, with our savings, we jump into the middle of the Amazon and we go there. But, you know, like this project, born from a big need of giving back to the jungle. Because after living there for three years, we received so much from the plants, from the people, not just the shamans, the people of the communities, the workers, how they were treating us, how they were giving us plant baths, treating us with so much care. All this knowledge that they have that is being lost. The women, they are so strong. How are they holding their families? These people were our friends. We were in awe during these three years, receiving so much gifts from nature, from the people. And one of the things that we learned in the jungle is this concept of reciprocity. You learn it from the plants itself is what maybe you call symbiosis as well. You learn it from the animals, you learn it from the people, from the shamans, always giving something back. So this project is our way to give back through the form of creativity, using our creativity. We both are creative persons. Natalia also works in the creative industries. Me too. All my life. And we say, okay, we're here, we're doing this. What gift can be better than just creating a film, an offering? Yes, something to give back. So this story pop up. It's a story of a little girl, of a community in the jungle. It's a girl that has some communication problems with humans. But she really connects with the plants in a way. She speaks the language of the plants. She understands. And she's very in tune with the nature itself. And the conflict of the movie starts when his father decides to sell his house and move the family to the city because his mother is sick. So this conflict creates in her a kind of shamanic initiation through a dream, through blah, blah, blah. And at the end she will find her voice and finally was raised for what it matters. That is her garden. That in a way, is a symbol of the Amazon, is a symbol of nature. [00:07:18] Dennis McKenna: That's a fantastic story, Louis. That's great. And you're finishing it up, right? But you're still in the process of finalizing the final version. And you're hoping to get support to be able to finish it up through a crowdfunding campaign that you have launched or will launch. [00:07:43] Luis Solarat: Yes, yes, the campaign is already launched. We're receiving a lot of support, but we need more. The film is already shot. We, basically, we work in this retreat center facilitating ayahuasca ceremonies for three years. I met my girlfriend there, we both worked there. And we were receiving some cash, some money from our work there. But this money was coming from a sacred place, was coming from ayahuasca, was coming from people. So I said, we need to do something really important with this money. So that was the fundraising of the first part. That was the filming, we shot in the Madre de Dios in Puerto Maldonado. I can tell you many stories about the filming. We can go in detail later. But the film is already shot. We train actors that were not professionals, kids from the communities, people from the communities. We've been there shooting for three. Not shooting for six days, but preparing this for six months in the jungle, in the rainy season, waiting. And all is in the can. What we need now is a little bit more of money because we ran out of all our savings to finish the film. To pay the artists that are going to create the soundtrack. That is going to be amazing. To pay the artists that are going to make the special effects and to pay other technicians for the sound. And also we want to distribute this through the communities in the Amazon, through film festivals. So what we are raising now is funds for this last stage. We are in the middle of the campaign. We have until the new year to finish. And I'm very confident that we are going to be in a good position because so far the donations are being quite surprising. A lot of people seem connecting with the story, in most of all, people that being in the jungle and that they are like us, also want to give something back. So it is like this collective offering. [00:09:44] Dennis McKenna: Yes, I think so. I mean, I imagine, you know, that that's great that you're. That the fundraising campaign is getting noticed and getting support. And I imagine that for the people of the community, it's something very special. Because when gringos come to these communities now, often in the age of ayahuasca tourism and so on, you know, their focus is on the shaman, you know, the great shaman, the wise people that are going to administer the medicine. And not to diminish that, but it happens in the context of a community. These shamans are members of the community, and the community life goes on. And it's kind of in the background and it's like nobody sees that. Nobody really appreciates the. The life of the people. And I watched the clip, the longer clip that you shared with me, the. About 20 minutes about your challenges in making this film, which were considerable. You know, I mean, you know, you were robbed, your, Your equipment was stolen. So besides running out of money, you know, it's been. But the community, it's really in that, in that clip, it's quite impressive the way that you built relationships, you built trust in that community because you speak perfect Spanish. This helps. Certainly. Eventually you weren't seen as a stranger coming in to take something from the people. You became their friend and they trusted you. And it's like creating this gift that you're going to share with the people and the world. And I think the world is going to respond. I think this is potentially going to get a lot of recognition at film festivals or wherever you do show it. And the McKenna Academy, which you've already done this fantastic film for us BioGnosis. So anything that we can do to help this, because this is exactly the message that we want to propagate. The idea of reciprocity, preservation of the knowledge, relationship with the plants and mainly the people. You know, the people have to live in these communities and it's not a luxury life. It's a very difficult life, you know, and you brought that forth very clearly in the BioGnosis film, you know, these communities and these people. And yet they're happy, you know, I mean, they're thriving in a certain way. They have nothing materially, you know, but they don't care. They're just. They appreciate being alive. The shaman in the BioGnosis film that you talked with is. Was ecstatic to be able to live in the jungle. He says he was like a kid in a candy store. You know, I'm here, I have all the medicines, I have nature people should, you know, see perhaps something in that. And what is the. What is threatened, you know, by all sorts of factors. COVID globalization, sadly, ayahuasca tourism, which is definitely a double edged sword. But it's certainly impacting a lot of these communities. Sometimes in good ways, sometimes in not so good ways. So it's a complex thing and these communities are just as vibrant as any community anywhere. But they don't get noticed. So I think Yuriana's Garden is going to be much more than just a story. I think it's wonderful that you chose the idea of a story. And this little girl who has kind of a magical relationship with the plants, doesn't speak a lot, maybe she's a little bit autistic. I mean many people are, nothing wrong with that. But she has this connection with the plants and you bring that out and that's something we should all strive for. I mean the big crisis of our age is that we are estranged from nature. We don't realize that plants are intelligent beings and they're part of the community of species that's co evolving. Anyway, I'm getting on my soapbox a little bit. [00:14:33] Luis Solarat: You hit the spot really well in one of our biggest inspirations for this because when I traveled to the jungle as well, I was maybe picturing in my mind these images of Sebastião Salgado of indigenous with feathers and all these things that for sure there exists. But most of the people that lives in the communities in the Amazon, they live in communities like the ones that you see now, like little very humble houses of wooden with really nothing there. Really poor communities, people. But also it's very interesting what happens there because it's like in a way modernity is bleeding in through the iPhones, through the phones, through the Internet. And there is an interesting mix of these two worlds colliding. But they don't get noticed. But there is a lot of knowledge there. Like the mothers of this kids that live there, they still treat them with plants when they are sick. They know all the remedies around. When we were sick, working in the center, all the local workers, that they were our friends, they were always giving us remedies with plant baths. Or if they were seeing that, maybe me and Natalia were angry also. We have a plant bath to harmonize our relationship. Amazing knowledge. They know everything about single plants. And this is what we want to honor giving back to these people because these were the people that were surrounded, that they were our friends, that they were our inspiration. And there is not a lot of films, there is not a lot of documentaries that show the life there and the problems and how these people live. And it's a beautiful world, full of color, full people is also very colorful, very happy, very generous. And this is our. We are honoring them. We're honoring our friends from there. We're honoring all the things that they taught us, all these stories they share about Chullachaqui and spirits of the jungle. And be careful at night, the jungle. All these things that you know, like it's not lost, but you can feel that it's getting forgotten by new generations, by the new kids with the Internet, they are not as interested in the plants. So that's why we are also choosing to have kids as protagonists, because we want to show this to the kids of those communities, because sometimes maybe they don't see it as us, as foreigners. We know how toxic it is outside. And when we see this world, as you say, you can feel like this richness and this happiness. So that's the world that the film lives in. And it's very important for us to be there, to not go to the super exotic shaman or to all these things that, yes, they get the attention, but most of the reality of the jungle are people living in places like this. [00:17:38] Dennis McKenna: Right. For this. This is a lived reality. It is not really a story. You're putting it in a story context, but this is real for them. You know, the intelligence of the plants, the intelligence really of nature that permeates the Amazon and they are immersed in it. They are part of this. And that's what this story really brings out. I think it's a wonderful story and I hope it gets a lot of attention. I have the feeling it will. So obviously we're here to explore your work. And we've said many times that Luis has a YouTube channel that shows his work, which is quite extensive. And, you know, there is the crowdfunding campaign. But if you go to YouTube and you just put Luis's name in, you'll see what comes up. An incredible production of many things, much of it having to do with the Amazon. And that's kind of a recent thing that's happened. Your work has evolved. I mean, you've done amazing sci-fi, short sci-fi pieces and that kind of thing. I think your YouTube, your movie on sacred tobacco is utterly amazing. But let's wind back the clock a little bit, I first met you, I think it was in 2016, maybe something like that. Maybe a little earlier than that when I came to UK for a conference. And you were working with Brian Rose at the time, who London Real. And you were his cinematographer and basically event producer. And he, you know, I was just there for a few days and he phoned me up or somebody did and said, you have to come over for an interview. You know, I said, I don't have time, you know, I can't. And he said, no, just, you know, we'll send a cab, come over. And so I went over and we had a very nice conversation, fireside conversation. And that's the first time I met you. And like so many of these celebrities, you know, you were there, you were doing the filming very quietly. We didn't really interact that much. And then a couple. In another couple of encounters I'd had with Brian on subsequent visits, you know, again, you were there because you were pretty much by his side all the time when he was doing these things. I think we were in Hampstead Heath or something. We took very interesting walk in Hampstead Heath. And you brought your drone. And at that point I sort of realized, you know, the interesting guy here is Luis. You know, Brian is just a stuffed shirt. I mean, he's just a talker, you know, no, no disrespect intended. He's all right, he's okay. His interest, his celebrity depends on people like you. You know, put him in a good light, show him always in a good light, and then. And then you step out of the way, you know. But then I began to realize, you know, you're the cool one, you're the creative one. And that was. That was a firm later when we did this, when I persuaded Brian and you didn't need persuasion, but I persuaded Brian to come to copy. [00:21:14] Luis Solarat: I persuaded him a lot as well, believe me. I push a lot to make that amazing thing happen aswell, Reconnect, that film. [00:21:22] Dennis McKenna: Reconnect. You had to push it a lot to do that. Yeah, well, it seemed to be quite natural. And that's really. I don't know if people can see it other than on the London Real website, but it's an excellent film about. [00:21:42] Luis Solarat: It's on my YouTube channel at the moment. If somebody wants to see it, they can find it there. I uploaded it myself. It's where in my YouTube channel, you can see the film. [00:21:52] Dennis McKenna: Okay. It's very interesting, that film, because the way it's structured. It's very personal, you know, it's about Brian, basically. It's about Brian's sort of entrance into this encounter with the medicine, expecting some kind of life transformation. And, you know, the way it's put together, it's like I am urging him to go to Costa Rica and I've been going to Soltara fairly regularly. And basically we had a conversation and I said, Brian, you know, I don't know what you're doing, but whatever it is, forget it, drop everything, come to this retreat and, you know, take ayahuasca, for God's sake. And he did, and you were with him and we did some good footage there. And then eventually that film was released. And so it was. And a lot of people have really, you know, I've heard many good things about that film. People were very impressed with it. But then you had worked with Brian for quite a while and you were getting a little bit burned out or maybe bored or something, and so you decided. And I think the retreat at Costa Rica kind of opened your eyes to the. Of course, ayahuasca is very interesting. I need to learn more about this. So then what happened? You left and you went to the Amazon? [00:23:31] Luis Solarat: Yes. What happened? Exactly? That's what I remember. We were. I was having an interview with the shaman of Soltara for the film, Wiler, and he told me about the etas. I never heard about the process of dieta before. Then he told me how he was learning from plants and how the songs that he was singing was being received by dreams. I mean, I've been open to dreams all my life. And that really put something in my life. Okay, I want to do this someday I'm going to do this, but how can I do it? I'm just a guy that lives in London. How can I get into the jungle myself? I'm going to get devoured by jaguars and stuff like that. But that idea was planted in me. I was like, wow, there is something profound there. So. And also that and during, that feel was the first time I tried the ayahuasca. I was very familiar with other psychedelics, dmt, mushrooms, all my life. But my first ceremony was there in that maloca and was crazy, but also opened me up. And then I came back to London and to finish the film took me maybe one year more or something like that, because it was stopped. And then I had to. And for that moment already, my life in London, I was becoming a little bit jaded. Not only the work, in a way, all this Capitalist dream was fading out my career, you know, like I was feeling that life was something more than just that. And then one day when we were finishing the film, something appeared in Facebook. And it was like this retreat center that was actually offering dietas that you could just go and they were going to assist you. So I book it. I book it in the. I was in the office and I book it and I told Brian, like, I'm sorry, but I need a break. I don't know if I'm going to come back. I don't feel that my life in Lodong is making me happy. I'm going to the Amazon. I'm going to do this. So I book it. And this was 9th of March, 2020, the day, the year of the pandemic. By then everything starts to feel a bit wary. But I booked a flight to Brazil. I travel all the jungle toward the Amazon river, through Manaus. I went to Leticia in Colombia. My plan was to get to Iquitos. And during that trip everything started to collapse. The world start to close down. I was going border after border was closing down. And you know, like I passed Brazil that day. Brazil closed down frontiers, then Colombia and then I'm finally in Peru in the 15th of March. That is the day that they declared the state of emergency in Iquitos. I arrived to iquitos at 11pm at night. Everybody told me that it was a very dangerous city. I didn't know where to go. I went to a hostel and the guy told me, okay, Luis, like the city is locked, you need to leave tomorrow from the hotel. Ok, No, a friend is coming for me was a lie. I didn't have anybody. So for a moment that night was like, wow. I traveled so far to be locked in this hostel in Iquitos. If people went to Iquitos, they know how their hostels are there. It's not the nicest place in the world. And Jan, this happened. I couldn't believe it, what was happening? The world was collapsing. And then I received a call from the center. Like it was a couple of days before my date, where I should start my dieta. Say if you are here, if you are in Iquitos, we can pick you up now. I said, yes, let's go. And we went into the jungle. Literally. You can see this in one of my documentaries. I remember this like a movie, like Leaving this road of Iquitos. Everybody was packing boxes. In the cars was chaos, traffic. And as we were going through this road, the noise started to fade out and we started to listen sounds of the jungle. I got into the jungle at night and everybody there was kind of freaking out as well, like, what are we going to do? And they told me, well, if you want, you can start your dieta tomorrow. I say, okay, let's do it. Like, I'm going to pass my quarantine here. I booked for 15 days of dieta. And in that moment. The quarantine was supposed to be 15 days. So I say, okay, nice. I do my diet and then I can continue traveling to Machu Picchu doing my things. But obviously that never happened. But I had that first dieta in that context of fear, in that context of uncertainty. And it was so profound to be in communion with the plants. With ayahuasca, I learned so much about being present, about managing this fear and about, it gives me so many tools to deal with this situation. We deal with these things and part of the amazing experience that is a dieta. I don't know if people know, but it's like you basically isolate yourself. You don't talk, you speak, you eat very simple food. And you are in communication through dreams, through ceremonies with plants that really are masters. That was a completely life changing experience. And I knew that nothing was going to be the same after that. I couldn't come back to my previous life. And at the end, the dieta finished, but country is still in lockdown. So I decided to extend my dieta. So it was one month and then it finished. The country still in lockdown. And in the retreat, we were only three people left and the shamans and the family of owners. And in that moment I stepped out of dieta. But I couldn't leave. I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to come back to Spain. I remember I even write you an email like, Dennis, I'm here in Iquitos. I'm doing this crazy. I don't know you have people around. And then I stayed. I stayed in the jungle, in the center. Obviously it didn't have any more clients. We were more like a community surviving in this situation of lockdown and surrounded by plants with access to ayahuasca. I keep doing dietas for months, for months. Today I got a notification on Facebook that was the first time I came to the valley four years ago. So from March to November, I never left to the jungle. I was there. And there i formed a lot of the relationship with the people of the communities around. And, you know, it was really beautiful to be there also they suffered a lot. It was very, very life changing experience to be there. And yes, that was my initiation in a way. I really felt that this was the place to be. And in the moment that the retreat start to receive guests again, I start to facilitate there to help because they didn't have staff at that moment. So at the beginning were like one people, two people. Then I stayed there for another two years or more like helping and learning how to work with the plants and with ayahuasca and with master plants and assisting other people by doing this. And that was beautiful. That was also a really very rich full experience. There is where I met my girlfriend. She also came to do a dieta and then she stayed. She become my girlfriend. We live together, we work together. And we both were receiving, as I said before, so many gifts from the people, from the plants, from everything that. Yes. This is also when it was the time when luckily I was there and you had this project BioGnosis and during the lockdown I happened to be there. And that in a way makes things much more easy because you save money sending crews and all these crazy trips that were impossible. So it was very synchronistic in a way. It was magical. And I still have goosebumps about how perfect timing west, you know. And since then, yes, it was, it was. [00:32:22] Dennis McKenna: It was actually very synchronistic, very fated this, joining this retreat center. And then you stayed on as a facilitator and effectively you transitioned from being a guest to being staff. And I don't know the people that ran the center, but I think they must have been remarkable people to welcome you. Is that center still in operation? Are they still there? [00:32:51] Luis Solarat: Yes, yes, they still there. It's a center called Psychonauta foundation run by an amazing family. I'm very grateful because they allow me to stay with them. I become part of the family. And I will be always grateful to them in a way as well. For me, to helping them was a way to give back, to all the support because they were challenging times and we they were my family and they still are. Now. they are a very big center. When I was there, there was much more small operations, but it was a beautiful time. I don't discard to come back to that space because facilitating and guiding people and supporting people during their trips is really an amazing process. But also I got to a point that I had to move on and that I have to in between other things, start this project, this film and also, as you were saying, ayahuasca tourism is a double edged sword. And I don't know where my thing is, where my mind is at the moment with that. So I'm just stepping out a little bit from that world. [00:33:59] Dennis McKenna: Yeah, yeah, but the center that you were, that you were working with and these people, they were Dutch or something, is that right? [00:34:10] Luis Solarat: Polish. Polish. It's a Polish family. [00:34:14] Dennis McKenna: But they were clearly doing it in the right way. They had their hearts in the right place. And when this crisis came along, they welcomed you. And so, as you know, there are hundreds and hundreds of retreat centers around the Iquitos, a lot of them. I wouldn't go there on a bet, you know. [00:34:38] Luis Solarat: No. [00:34:39] Dennis McKenna: But this one that you would recommend to people? [00:34:43] Luis Solarat: Yes, I would recommend it. I would recommend it. This was my home. So, for sure, for sure. [00:34:50] Dennis McKenna: Where can people go? [00:34:51] Luis Solarat: Psychonauta Foundation. Because it's close to the town of Nauta. [00:34:59] Dennis McKenna: So it's Psychonauta, right? All right, well, those of you looking for a good experience around a ketos, note that down because I think, I've not been to that center, but next time I have time in a ketos, I may go there. Because I like with your experience with it, I would go there and I would feel like it was a place that could be trusted and so forth. And then, and then, yes, you mentioned that while you were there, we came up with this idea of doing the BioGnosis film and we had a little bit of money. Not enough. There's never enough money. But you were the right person at the right time. So you became the cinematographer and you worked with Christina, who was also living in the Sacred Valley. And she was with the Academy at that time. And she and you conducted, you know, basically did the filming in 2021, mostly the fall of 2021. You built the film then you worked with Greg Hemings at Hemings House, put this together and it's actually a wonderful film. You know, it's a great film. It's a good testament to your skills as a filmmaker, you know, and Greg as an editor and producer and Christina as well. I mean, Christina was interviewing Juan and I should mention, well, for those who haven't seen it, they can look at our website and it is, you know, if they go to the McKenna Academy and search on BioGnosis, it will come up and there are links to full length versions of it, which I'll put on the podcast site. Since it was produced, it has gotten a lot of recognition on the festival circuit. It's received several awards, including one award from the New York Psychedelic Science Fiction Film Festival. Even though it's not science fiction. But for some reason we presented it and it got an award that's got several since. And so it's. It's a good film. And it's very well, sort of articulates what we're trying to do. And importantly, it focuses very much on the situation of this herbarium in Iquitos at the university there. And the curator of the herbarium, Juan Ruiz, who is a botanist and a scientist, but he is also a man of the forest. He's lived in Iquitos all his life. He knows so much about planet plants and animals. And he is truly one of those wise elders that we talk about, you know, and it's been said sometimes the cliche is when a medicine man dies, it's as though a library has burned down, you know, and Juan is that library in a certain sense. He very rarely writes things down. He's not that kind of scientist. He says, why write it down? It's all up here. It's in my hand. Juan, you're 71. You're not going to live forever. We got to record this. And so the next phase of the BioGnosis project is to continue this process of making interviews with Juan. And I presume if you're available and interested, you're the guy that does the interview because you and Juan have developed a good relationship. And you're one of the few people that can actually understand Juan in Spanish, not standard Spanish, you know, so I'm looking forward to that. I think we're going to, you know, be able to get sufficient support to make the next episode. Because the idea of the first movie was that it would be the first in a series. And much of the subsequent series will be to document his knowledge and, you know, the experience that he has needs to be recorded. And the herbarium has now even fallen more on hard times. They've had to close the herbarium, so they have no funding. Juan's been forced to retire more unwillingly. There's no money, just very small pension to support him. So now the next phase of doing these documentaries is we're going to try and raise funds to create a modest pension for Juan, a stipend so that he can retire with a bit of dignity and also continue his work. You know, if we do find funding for this project to restore and digitize this herbarium, then he would be able to come back on board and be the person managing that project. And so we continue to seek funding for that. And we're planning to do some fundraisers after this Coca conference. So that's where we're at. Also, people that look at our website should know that we're in process of organizing a Summit on Coca in the Sacred Valley in Cusco, in February. And it's going to bring together many high profile people in the area of coca. The McKenna Academy is mostly about psychedelics, but coca is one of these plants that is important and it's been stigma because it's the source of cocaine. So we're going to try and change that conversation, bring policy, policy, drug policy experts, scientists, geneticists, taxonomists, entrepreneurs and so on to the Sacred Valley for this, for this Coca summit. And again, people can see the details on our website and we hope that you can support that and also attend, if you're interested, spots for guests. We have about 10 open spots, so we do welcome people to attend. And you will be again at the center of the of the whole thing because you'll be doing the interview. You'll be doing the interview. So another phase in the process. And I'm excited about the coca summit because it potentially could really make a difference. Coca is important. It's a useful and beneficial plant and it doesn't have a bad reputation that it's got. [00:42:40] Luis Solarat: Yeah, people needs to know. It's like here where I live, here in the Sacred Valley in Cusco. Coca is everywhere. Not like people chewing them, people using them for offerings, people using them for prayers. We were talking about reciprocity and coca sometimes is the medium. It's the offering that you do before going into a walk into one of these mountains, is the offering you do when you want to communicate with that, with the spirits, with the spirit world, with something bigger. It's a transmissor and it's very important what you're doing here. I'm honored that I'm going to be supporting you again with the video production of the event. And look forward to it. As you were mentioning, BioGnosis, such an important moment in my life as well, because through that project I also open up to the people in Iquitos. Juan for sure, but all the connections, all the people are crazy. Like this professor of the university that is like kind of an alchemist that studies plants, but also it's with a feet between science and another one in the folklore, following the traces of all these stories. In the folklore, white tobacco is used to make people calm with their fears. So he's studying why and finding why. And, you know, like, also we went to communities like the ones we were mentioning before and interviewing just regular people. They are just working with plants and, you know, like, healing their community with very humble remedies made by plants. And it was amazing. For me, it opened up a big world. And it was, like, also part of the inspiration of this Yuriana's Garden was the journey we had through BioGnosis, the people I met there, and the wisdom I was able to get in touch by doing that project. So thank you again. [00:44:37] Dennis McKenna: Thank you. Don't thank me. Thank you for being on the spot in the right place at the right time. I think without you, we wouldn't have been able to do this little documentary. And because you were there, because you had all the skills and all the background of being in the jungle now, and, of course, speaking Spanish so well, you were able to pull this off. So the movie is actually a wonderful movie, and it does, you know, and the documentaries that we're doing for BioGnosis are really in the context of this larger ambition that we have that we may not ever be able to realize. But the idea of digitizing this herbarium, saving this herbarium and bringing, you know, the collections are a gem. The collections are a treasure in a certain way. Many people don't understand. People can relate to the idea of botanical gardens, but a library of dried plants, what's that about? You know, they can't. [00:45:52] Luis Solarat: I didn't know it before I went there as well. [00:45:55] Dennis McKenna: But what herbaria are very important, and they're being neglected today in biology. Herbaria are a record of the collections of the plants in the area, and it's historical. I mean, you can look at specimens in the Herbarium in Iquitos that were collected as long ago as the 1900s, and many of those plants may not be there anymore. So the record of when and where they were collected, and every plant has that, at least where and when it was collected. And usually what it is, if often we don't know what it is. So that library is an important resource. And this relates to conversations we've had and conversations I've had with many a lot of the McKenna Academy is to bridge indigenous knowledge to scientific knowledge, build bridges. These things are not in opposition to each other. These things enrich each other, you know, and that's what we're trying to do. And we're going to construct an interface with the herbarium so that people can not only look at the specimens, but they will be able to basically cruise through a virtual rainforest that will be key to where these specimens are located in the jungle. So it'll be kind of a, you know, visionary rainforest, we're calling it. There will be an app that will build so that people can upload information. And this is something we want to make available to people in the communities where this work is done. So if you know a person in a village that has plant knowledge, if they want to share that with the world, they can upload what they know through this app. [00:47:55] Luis Solarat: Amazing. [00:47:56] Dennis McKenna: The other thing is we also respect intellectual property and indigenous knowledge. So this is not something where it's something we're encouraging. If they want to, and if they don't feel like they want to share their knowledge, that's perfectly okay, too. This should be something that comes from the people. We don't want to be colonial about it, you know, or neocolonial. It's a tool that they can use if they wish to. And, you know, in my own experience, you know, somewhat less than yours, certainly, but in my own experience as a botanist and collecting plants and collecting information about the plants, you know, usually people want to tell you about the plants, you know, they recognize this knowledge, they want to share it. It's not like you're there to steal something, you know, they're. They're eager to share it, you know, and, and at least that's been my experience. And I think it's very sad in some ways that the younger generation, you know, in these communities, unfortunately, in some ways, they all have iPhones, they all have access to video games. And now, you know, Starlink is coming in and putting communities on the Internet. I think this is not a good thing, frankly. I think this is a threat to cultural integrity. I don't think we need to homogenize these communities to the global Internet. We should have the sensitive to respect them and respect the integrity of these cultures and not, you know, the more you're looking at a screen, the less you're looking at what's in nature, you know. [00:49:50] Luis Solarat: Exactly. [00:49:51] Dennis McKenna: And these kids, you know, they should be encouraged to look at nature. They should be courage. Encouraged to look at the plants around them and talk to the people in their communities. They know more than some clown on YouTube. [00:50:06] Luis Solarat: Exactly. [00:50:06] Dennis McKenna: You know what I mean. I mean, they should go talk to their grandmother, their grandfather, talk to people that they know and respect. [00:50:17] Luis Solarat: Yeah. [00:50:18] Dennis McKenna: Because there's knowledge there, you know. [00:50:22] Luis Solarat: Yeah. And in a way that's a little bit what I can offer because I'm not from the jungle. I come in from the modern world. I live in London for nine years in a hyper capitalist industrialized city and these people were a little bit shocked. It's like, what are you doing here with us? It's like everybody see us as. We have figured it out, have we have better lives if we have more technology, cars, we have everything that they are being shown in these screens that they are getting there. So it's like in a way for us, this project is just a way to say, hey, wow, look at what you have. Maybe you don't realize because you live here all your life, but we, that we don't have that already. We are lost. Our traditions have been lost hundreds of thousands of years ago. We lost all this wisdom, we lost all this knowledge, we lost all this care that you have for nature or this connection. And this is priceless and just if, if with our film, one kid that's of this community, or maybe one kid from the modern world as well, can see plants differently, can see that maybe there is more intelligence in the natural world than any artificial intelligence or any technology company is going to give you. There's more entertainment, there is more wisdom, there is more adventures, there is more magic. And that's the word as well, magic. Because I think technology is amazing, but in a way it sucks out the magic from the natural world because all that appeared in the screen looks so amazing. And you know, the video games and the new movies and everything that you start to be less and less sensitive to what amazing like a sunset, a plant, or you know, like how amazing can be a dream that you have during that night. Why do you need artificial intelligence or virtual reality, having this adventure? But you need to pay attention. Nature requires attention and intention. If you don't approach it with some. Yeah, with patience, with attention, you don't see the details. And when you do it and when you put intention, nature start to speak to you. And we need to speak with nature. Nature is talking to us all the time and we need to listen. More nature and less Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, etc. [00:53:01] Dennis McKenna: Well, the thing is, I mean, if you talk about intelligence and you know, information, I mean, the biosphere as a whole is an interconnected network of plants and animals and fungi and everything alive, all of it in communication. Right. This is the Internet. This is the real Internet, the Internet that we've created with our technology. And to a certain extent, we've taken this, you know, these communication technologies. We've kind of extruded our nervous system over the globe, you know, as a layer of communication. But beneath that layer is a much more rich and real area of communication which does not use bits, you know, ones and zeros, does not use these machine forms of communication. So, you know, that uses real direct experience. The experience, for instance, that you could only have on something like Ayahuasca, you know, a direct experience of the plant intelligence and really of the global mind, which is always there, but nobody's going to see it. If they're too busy watching TV or screens, you know. That becomes. And the sad thing is, you know, the people that are immersed in these, in these social media technologies and so much is, they're not happy. You know. They're isolated, they're lonely, they're. They feel despair. And, you know, this is not good for us, basically. I mean, what we need is a balance. Sure, you use technology, I use technology. We're using it right now. What we need to do is achieve a balance so that we become the able to use these technologies without becoming enslaved by them. And that's what I see doing. And of course, the corporate, you know, the corporate overlords that run the world, they want us to be enslaved by these and they want us to be separated from nature and from each other because it doesn't serve their purposes for us to be talking to each other and talking to nature. And, you know, we have to resist this. [00:55:34] Luis Solarat: For me, I experienced this like, you know, like I was all about technology, video games, films, everything, all my life. And I have like a shock therapy when I went to the jungle and I got locked down for months. Then I got a phone card at some point, but maybe for six months I didn't have access to a phone. I have really limited access to the news and to all of that. I was in the jungle having the most simple life of my life. You know, like we were cooking in fire. We were living in houses of wood and with not even walls. There were like mosquito nets. There was no separation between me and the wind outside and the rain. And you know, like living in this jungle, in this organism, you are inside a big organism and you can feel it. And I cannot explain it scientifically, but, you know, like, it's like your brain waves, it's like your thought patterns change. It's like you do a detox and you start to be on another wavelength that is much less anxious that you feel that you are part of something. You are not alone. You are not isolated. You are not an individual that is alone in the universe that you know that you feel part of something bigger. And that itself is healing. I'm telling you, ayahuasca plays a big part. But just immersion in nature itself is so important when doing these treatments for our lives that, you know, like, that's medicine. Like the birds, the sounds, as you know that you cannot imagine the dreams I'm having when I'm in the jungle, how different quality they have, how your consciousness just is in another level. And I think there are some studies that they say that when you go for a walk in the forest, your wavelengths also change. You become like a less in this better, productive, anxious, predictive mind. And you become. And that was medicine. That's the real medicine. So that's why this is a little bit the paradox of all this ayahuasca tourism. You had the experience and it's amazing and it's life changing for a lot of people. But then you come back to all these other frequencies, to a society that is really toxic for ourselves. For me, I'm so grateful now to be simplifying my life. And this is something that was taught in my ayahuasca ceremonies. The lessons are simple. Life is simple. If you overcomplicate it, you suffer. It's like, so I'm now in a process and also my decision of living here in the sacred Valley, in a rural area where life is slow. Sometimes it really gets my nerves because it's like, it's so slow. And Peruvians are so slow and I know nothing worse. But, you know, like. But there is another energy and this is what I want to cultivate now in my life. And of course it's a lot of sacrifice and my ego is there. Oh, man, you need to go to the modern world. There you're going to have more opportunities for your safety in the future, for your career, for your staff. But there is something in me that feels really good when I'm slowed down, when I'm in nature, when, you know, like, that's the real medicine. And yeah, this is the real gift that this time in the jungle and this time in Peru has given to me. So, yes, I hope. [00:59:05] Dennis McKenna: Very well said, Luis. Very well said. I mean, there is your career, right? On the other hand, there's Your life, they're a different thing. In a certain way. Your career can be something that happens inside your life. But if your career takes over your life, then, like, it's not a life anymore than you are in this enslaved. And your experience, you know, is very instructive and interesting for a lot of people because in the first part of your life, you were very much immersed in all of this technology, film, computers, video games, et cetera, et cetera. You took that knowledge with you, you did very well in it. Then you went to the jungle, you know, and you had these experiences. You didn't lose the skills that you had, but you applied them in a different way. And now we see the results. So you are just a pretty amazing person, actually. [01:00:09] Luis Solarat: Thank you. Thank you. Yes. It's like I feel for me sometimes I feel like what I'm doing because it's like I'm with one fit in this world of shamanism and plants, another feet in the world of films. And I'm not going full in any of those, but I'm in the middle of these two paths, but more and more, and you know, like, life is just showing me, like, by meeting people like you, by being in projects like the one that we've been involved, that there is some need, maybe, or this is how I see myself to tell the stories about the medicine, about psychedelics. It's difficult to explain. Sometimes they are either stigmatized or the opposite. They are shown like a miracle that ayahuasca will cure all your projects. And this becomes also very problematic in a way, because people come with some expectations. And then it's like, so by navigating this world and by myself practicing and being in touch with plants, I am still doing the dietas. For me, it's a practice that I need to do once or twice per year. Because it's like we were like, are the talks of technology at the talks of news, are the talks of people of everything. But also it allows me to understand the stories that then I try to tell. And I try to tell you with a lot of humility based always on my experience. And of course I'm evolving and I'm changing my mind about certain things. But in a way, I think it's important to have the experience, to be talking about the experience. And I can feel that some people resonate with that through my videos and through this is like, it's not that I'm selling these miracle substances that they will change your life in a night, because it's not like that. It's like the ayahuasca and psychedelics are a door to a lot of wisdom, but it requires a lot of changes in your life that are very basic. And it's about compassion, it's about love, it's about simplicity, it's about the simple things. If you don't have that, you can take all the Ayahuasca in the world. And I've seen this many times, you can have that if you don't have a foundation of some ethics, or it can go very wrong as well, create a lot of ego problems. [01:02:33] Dennis McKenna: Like any technology, I mean, ayahuasca is basically a technology. Claire. Medicine is basically a technology like the Internet, like computers, like, like iPhones. It's all about the choices we make. You know, to them, the moral center comes from us, not from them. [01:02:57] Luis Solarat: Exactly. [01:02:57] Dennis McKenna: It's how you choose to use them and for benefit or not. And that's that the moral clarity comes from within us. And then we have these technologies like, you know, like the Internet. And so I don't like ayahuasca, but of course, ayahuasca, you know, I mean, it is a technology, it is a plant, but it's also a being. You know, it has its own intelligence. And we have to recognize that, you know, these plants have agency, you know, so they are a little different because they are like people. They're like the people that we deal with. And as we know, you know, in social relations and so on, you can choose to have relationships that are toxic. You know, you can choose to hang out with people who you shouldn't, who are not good people, or you can be conscious about it. You can try to associate with people that you can trust, that you respect and so on. And the plants are the same way. There are many people who misuse psychedelics, some deliberately. There are many people that misuse them because they just don't have a clue. You know, they believe everything they're told about it and pretty much they're not self reflective. So then they probably don't. They may not have bad intentions, but they use them in a stupid or superficial way. And like you say, it takes a commitment to work with something like ayahuasca. It's a lifelong commitment. [01:04:43] Luis Solarat: Yeah, I see it like a spiritual path. Like what you do in the ceremony needs to be also covered by what you do outside the ceremony. And it needs to be aligned. Otherwise, per se, you are going to get confused. And it's very important to always say that. [01:05:03] Dennis McKenna: Yeah. If you don't take what you learn in the ceremony and apply it in your life, then what's the point? You're obviously missing. [01:05:12] Luis Solarat: And that takes time, and that takes a lot of time. That's what people sometimes say, like, okay, I'm going to change in one day. No, there's like patience with yourself and compassion with yourself. Because changing patterns, changing behaviors takes a lot of time. And once you receive the wisdom, it's a practice of coming back to your center and fail and coming back and coming back until one day you are able to release that pattern. But it takes time. And that's something important for people to know that receive the message and applying, integrating it and embodied takes time. So you need patience and compassion with yourself. Well, it's been a fantastic conversation. I mean, we could go on and on and on, but I think this is a good place to bring it to a close. If there's anything you'd like that we haven't said that you would really like to say. [01:06:07] Luis Solarat: No, nothing. It was amazing. Amazing conversation. Thank you for your support. Just to anybody that wants to watch a little bit more about our film, we're having making off series. We're having a lot of media. It's not just the film, it's all our adventure going there. You can find that in my YouTube channel or in my website. This probably the best way. Luis-solarat.com. And if you want to support us, we need help. We need help to finish this movie. So anybody that is listening this, if he wants to support us with a donation by sharing the campaign, or maybe there is some artists that they want to join us with music or effects or stuff like that. But we're happy to receive them and to make it part of this offering. As I was saying, offering to nature and offering to mother. [01:07:00] Dennis McKenna: We're all about collaboration. That's what the McKenna Academy is all about. Symbiosis, which is another word for collaboration. And yeah, we'll make sure all of these things are on the podcast website and then you can get to the appropriate lengths and see Luis's work, which is quite a rabbit hole. There's a lot of material there. Most of it's fantastic. Okay, we'll get this up there and I look forward to the next conversation. I'm really honored and pleased to have you here. [01:07:41] Luis Solarat: Yeah, I'm really honored. See you in Cusco very soon in Coca Forum. [01:07:46] Dennis McKenna: Yes. All right. [01:07:47] Luis Solarat: Okay, Dennis, thank you. Bye bye. Join our mission to harmonize with the natural world. Support the Makena Academy by donating today. Thank you for listening to Brainforest Café with Dennis McKenna. Find us online at McKenna Academy. [Outro] Join our mission to harmonize with the natural world, support the McKenna Academy by donating today. Thank you for listening to Brainforest Café with Dennis McKenna. Find us online at McKenna.Academy.